Dating Rule #1: Know Your Worth

Between the fear of fake dating profiles, commitment, and the sheer time and expense it takes to find a match, it’s no wonder that dating today is hard. Not to mention adding an ongoing pandemic to the mix. With ghosting becoming the new normal, it’s not out of the ordinary for a romantic interest to disappear with no reply for what feels like no reason at all. Dating apps and sites make it difficult to navigate the world of dating. Listen in for expert insight on the biggest issues with modern dating and tips for what you can do to find someone new and worthwhile. 

Therapist Unplugged is brought to you by The Montfort Group. Each episode will feature the unplugged views of guests and fellow therapists as we navigate hot topics, therapy trends and the world around us.

*The Montfort Group provides a serene, calming setting where you can feel challenged, supported, and motivated. Our skilled therapists bridge specialized backgrounds and varied philosophies together to create one unified strategy. Rather than steer you away from your own natural abilities, we help you maximize your unique strengths. We do not view a broken history as the end of a story, we see it as an opportunity for a new beginning.

Transcript

Cory Montfort: 0:28

Are you ready to rock and roll?

Laurie Poole: 0:32

Ready to rock and roll? All right, love Welcome to therapist unplugged. Let me say that again. Welcome to therapist unplugged. This is your host, Laurie pool. No, there's nothing wrong with my voice this morning. I've been laughing with my co host, Cory Montfort before we started recording, this morning, we are launching a little bit of a mini series on affairs of the heart because it's the end of February and Cory, February is the month of the heart. It's Valentine's Day, it is Heart Health Awareness Month. And it seems to me there are a lot of clients coming in with issues about breakups and dating and issues around sex, and so on. So I thought today, we could kick off this series talking about dating. Let's do it. Okay.

Cory Montfort: 1:29

Yeah. I get a lot of that in my office for sure. What are some of the things

Laurie Poole: 1:33

that come into your opposites gate? I

Cory Montfort: 1:35

think, you know, I have a lot of single women in their 30s never been married, career focused, trying to, you know, find the one, you know, to start having children. But they don't want that to be the reason why they get married. And so the dating, listen, it's a lot different nowadays than I think, when we were younger, dating, dating is a lot online. There's a whole different set of rules that I think women and men nowadays, have to remember and follow. And then I also talk a lot with people that are dating after divorce, which is, you know, complicated, especially if you have children. And there's limited time and trying to step out into a world that you haven't been in in a really long time. That

Laurie Poole: 2:43

can feel pretty scary. Yeah. Yeah. I have friends dating in their 60s. Yeah. And that's quite an adventure. Yeah. And you know, what's interesting is that some of the issues that come up in your 60s are not unlike the ones that you experienced in your 30s.

Cory Montfort: 2:59

Or maybe even in your teens. Yes,

Laurie Poole: 3:01

very much. So. Yeah. Oh,

Cory Montfort: 3:03

my God, I got ghosted. I don't understand how he just wanted to get laid. Yeah. Yeah. Or I thought it was really the gentleman move for him to pick me up before date. And then I realized, oh, he just wanted to make sure. He also took me home. So you know, the things maybe as older women that we think are chivalrous, we have to really kind of be on guard nowadays, that oh, this means that I'm going to have to have really good boundaries, because now he's in my home somehow.

Laurie Poole: 3:42

Yeah. Yeah. No, it's true. The, the system of dating has changed profoundly. In contrast to when I was growing up, and to be perfectly transparent, I don't have a lot of experience in the dating realm. Because I've spent most of my life married, right? to different people, mind you. But married? Yes. So I didn't really have the opportunity to meet people through other people, etc. which is the way if you didn't meet someone through friends, you met them at a bar? Or inside or social? Yes. Through work, it seems to me in the last 25 years anyway, as online opportunities have presented themselves and then evolved into apps and so on, that the whole system of dating has changed profoundly. And it's become more complicated. And the rules have changed. Judgment, how you judge who you're dealing with, can be a little crazy making, because of these false profiles and how people present themselves. Yeah. Can you trust your intuition? Is what they're presenting real. I think that could be really unnerving.

Cory Montfort: 5:07

For a lot of people. Yeah. And I think you know, us as some, like, when I talk with singles over 40 that have been married, you know, most of their adult life and they're stepping into this new realm that, you know, I mean, 20 years ago, we really weren't even on the internet, right? So Nowadays, you know, stepping into that whole world and, and being, you know, there's certain people that approach it very sincerely, which is also, you know, it's, it's endearing, right, where they're very vulnerable. And they, they say everything that's on their mind on these apps, they want, you know, the, the viewer to know them fully. And, and sometimes it's just too much because we have to know what those apps are for. And I, I'm an advocate for less is more, if you're going to be on those apps, and, you know, buy me a cup of coffee, if you want to know more about me, because really, it is more visual, on a lot of these apps. It's, it's, it's an, it's easy to just keep swiping. And so there's also, you know, when you write something in a text form, how that's interpreted. And sometimes it boxes you in and so there's, it's a, it's an art form, kind of, of how to how to approach you know, getting a date with a high value person,

Laurie Poole: 6:41

it seems to me to, there may be some people who translate much better on an app, or in that format than they actually do in person. Absolutely.

Cory Montfort: 6:50

And then you have, of course, all these, the filters and the way, you know, the angles, and of course, the way we want to be we the way we want to be seen, as you know, the most attractive, the the most outgoing, fun successful, we were putting out there, you know, our best face. And not that there's much wrong with that. But I also encourage people to, to be more of themselves. Because at the end of the day, when you go out on the date, and you get to know someone, it's you know, the long game is for them to see you and know you for you, not this version of you that you want to be swiped right on.

Laurie Poole: 7:34

Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting. You mentioned earlier about rules. And so I was speaking with a young woman in her late 20s, about the rules that she's developed over the last several months dating, you know, through online app. So I said, Can you tell me what you what are the rules you've developed for yourself in all of this? And one of the things she said was to plan she wants to know, like, if we're going to have a date, plan ahead. I don't want some kind of spontaneous on the event. And our she said, that usually means it's a hookup. And it's not. And she said, I'm really not interested in that. So it's all about planning and planning to meet in a safe space. Yes. Because she had an experience once where she didn't feel safe. Yes. And so she has really made sure that that that she feels comfortable and safe. She also insists that the person walks her home, she lives in a big urban area. And so it's about walking her home to make sure that she gets home safe. And she's just not left to her own devices. So when you talk about the chivalry, you know, for her, you know, someone from the state living in another city, that's going to be an important part for her. Yeah. She's never the first one to text after a date.

Cory Montfort: 9:01

Yeah. But you know, I, personally, I kind of like that. And I think it kind of works with if you're talking about, you know, the heterosexual kind of roles, if you will. Or at least even just talking in terms of masculine and feminine energies, and what you're trying to cultivate and what you're trying to attract. And I think I always tell women, you need to realize that you are the prize. Because if you don't, you will never be treated like one. And so if you operate like that, that you value yourself enough, that if he is interested, he will reach out. He will follow up, he will ask you out again, that you value yourself enough to wait for that. And it feels amazing.

Laurie Poole: 10:07

I love that treat yourself a surprise. Yeah. Yeah, view yourself as to me as

Cory Montfort: 10:12

a man, a man wants to be with a woman that values herself to and they will look at you as the prize if you value yourself as the prize and so it's a win win. It's not just it's not just you know, just because I'm a woman, it It's because I really believe in that dynamic.

Laurie Poole: 10:31

What about who pays on a date?

Cory Montfort: 10:35

You know, I'm, I'm old school. So I think in the beginning it also I think, I think men really value good men really value if they're in it for the, for the long term they value taking care of and providing for a woman. And again, I know we're strictly talking about this in the in the heterosexual norm, Norm, Norm relationships. But I do think allowing someone to treat you well is hard sometimes for women, because we give a lot all the time. So the benefit of having a relationship is to allow someone to pour into us. And that doesn't just translate financially. But I think that is a component. And I think the longer you date, someone, obviously there, there can be shared expenses. And it doesn't always have to be the man paying for everything all the time. But in the beginning, as he is courting you let yourself be taken care of as it makes them feel good, too.

Laurie Poole: 11:49

That's true. I think that's true for a lot of men, depending on what the end game is.

Cory Montfort: 11:54

Exactly. Now, we've all heard the horror stories of men not getting what they want, and then they want to split the check or something like that. And so if you don't feel like it, it means that you owe them something. Well, first of all, you don't, no matter what they say. But I know a lot of women will try to, you know, make sure that everything's equal. So they don't feel pressured into owing them something that they're not prepared to give them. But I say, just let them, let them think that let them think that that doesn't mean they're gonna get it, but let them take care of you. Don't try to just just prevent any feelings of once you notice that the guy is uncomfortable because he didn't get what he wants, then you can end it.

Laurie Poole: 12:53

Right. Well, and that brings me to the next question about sex. Do you have sex on the first date? Do you wait it out? When When do you have sex? And I wonder if that isn't a question that many women struggle with? Because there are men, for example, who were that very scenario you've just described happens that when there isn't sex, and I, a friend of mine went through that were the gentleman who I use that term loosely now, in retrospect, after several dates, I thought that because she invited him for dinner that that that was an open door for sex, right, like in her house media. Yeah. And for in her head, it was not correct. And he was quite offended. Right. And so that ended there. I mean, that was the end of it, of course, you know, amongst other things, but I'm just wondering about, you know, how does one discern when it's time for? Do you listen to your inner GPS, when you are comfortable? For Are there rules, like for some of them, and there's rules. One of the things that this young woman said was, you know, the question about sex is if I have no attachment to the outcome, in other words, I'm not I don't care if this bizarre long distance story of a long term relationship, then there's, there's no, there's no skin in the game. Right? Right. But if it's, but if it's someone I'm genuinely interested in, I will be very discerning. Yes. Hello. Yes. Wait, yes, to see where things

Cory Montfort: 14:33

are. That's really wise advice. Because, you know, first of all, it should always be something that you want to do. So that's just rule number one, right? It shouldn't be something that you feel like well, it's been three dates and he's gonna break up with me if I don't,

Laurie Poole: 14:49

right. He's bought me dinner four times.

Cory Montfort: 14:51

Exactly. You know the the pressure to do it is not a reason to do it. No matter how long you've been going out or what he's done for you. You should you know, if it's not something you want after, you know a certain length of time you have to question if this is a good relationship for you. But I like her way of thinking which is listen, you know, if you want to have sex and you value yourself, and this is something that you just want to if you want to do it on first date or one night stand that is completely up to you. But no But that probably isn't going to turn into a mean, a long term relationship, I think, getting to know someone and again, making sure they understand your worth and your value. Because if you are in it for the long term, I think waiting a bit to be that vulnerable and letting someone actually into you, at that level is respecting yourself, right. And what you offer

Laurie Poole: 16:02

because it's a lot. It's a lot, the exactly. I, you know, I think to myself, frequently, dating today feels very complicated and uncertain. And there are many people who become addicted to the chase through these apps. Yes, they get addicted to the feedback that somebody swiped me. It's the chase, but it's not really about D evolving relationships. It's like the whole Yeah, it's

Cory Montfort: 16:33

nice pursuit, right? It's not about like finding connection. So they're validating their worth or their market value. That's right,

Laurie Poole: 16:43

exactly. So there's that part of it. There is also a pattern of having an experience where you meet someone, and then being ghosted and not really understanding why this seems to come up a lot amongst women that I work with, where they'll have an evening or a meeting, and they'll think, gee, that really good time, say to connect, and then they never hear from that person. And then the focus becomes the questioning the self doubt, what did I do? Was there something about me and I'll say, hey, no, listen, you know what? You dodged a bullet? Why did the tough thing they're about, you know, yeah,

Cory Montfort: 17:27

you can't you I tell women to or men, in this case, if they've been ghosted, especially after a short period of time, they can't reject something they don't know. Right? So it is hard, because all of us contend to be like that, like, what? What was it about me, but we don't know what's going on in their lives. So we have now,

Laurie Poole: 17:54

and I think some, you know, often the default as we ask ourselves, was it something about me, but I love what you just said, they can't reject something. They are someone they don't know. And they don't know me, you can't know someone after one meeting. It's impossible. Now.

Cory Montfort: 18:10

The other thing I was thinking about is for advice, especially for women, I guess it's easier to talk about women because I am one. And, and I have I have, you know, been dating, after divorce and stuff like that. So I've been on these apps. And I've, I've had some personal experience with it. But I think it's really important for women to be clear, up front, even before they have sex with the person for the first time about what their their intentions are, and what their boundaries are. You know, for me, I've been, you know, in a long term relationship now dating a wonderful man. But when we first decided to have sex, I said, just so you know, you know, we haven't defined our relationship quite yet. Because there's that line where nobody really wants to talk about it. You just want it to be like, Well, I think we're exclusive. But, you know, I said, I just want you to know, when it comes to sex, I don't share well. So if you're not in a place where you're ready to be sexually monogamous, so I wasn't asking you to define the relationship. I said, then I think we should wait. And I think, you know, he actually looking back on that was, that's like, the boldest thing a woman has ever said, because a lot of women don't feel comfortable saying what they need, right? Up front. They are just really, if they liked the guy, they just really want to be whoever they he wants them to be. So, you know, they'll continue to like them. But I think you know, that earned a lot of respect, and it helped me understand moving forward, at least, we were going to be sexually monogamous even before we defined boyfriend and girlfriend, and I think it's okay to say those things more than okay. I think it's necessary. You know, women say what they want Want before they give what he wants?

Laurie Poole: 20:33

It sounds to me as though being able to say that took a lot of introspection and self reflection, to get to that point where you could find the words now. Because just in sharing the that word choice about being sexually monogamous, you know, in terms of what you wanted or needed in order to be comfortable in the relationship. I don't think there's a lot of women, Cory, who would present it that way. No, fully I you know, I think that's really special. And you got there because you were you've been really thinking about what you needed. Yeah, I think that's great advice. And, and a really interesting way of framing it in terms of what we need. In order to feel safe. Yeah. And open. Yeah, you know, but what we need, yeah, and unapologetic. That's right. apologetic, women often feel like, oh, I don't know, I say this phrase. You know, and man, we, you know, listen, it's time. It's time, it's time to stop apologizing for what we need. That's right, and heart must be aligned. And this is the month of the heart, head and heart in alignment. So in our next episode, Cory, we're going to talk about recovering from heartbreak. Because there's a lot of broken hearts there. Yes. And I think it's important to talk about how do you recover from a broken heart, whether it's through the breakup of a relationship, maybe losing a partner through illness and death? And those are different experiences, perhaps. But the loss is the loss and grief have a lot of similarities. Yes, yes. And I know when I have folks coming in to see me and they're in this recovery period, and they're just so devastated. How long is it going to take? What do I need to do? I just want this pain to be over because it's so unbearable. So I think we need to talk about that next time.

Cory Montfort: 22:47

Yeah. Well, I look forward to that. Okay. I always look forward to these. We have a lot of fun.

Laurie Poole: 22:52

I meet you. I love hearing about your experience and just getting a chat about some of these things. Yeah. So until next time, until next time, my friend.

Cory Montfort: 23:03

Take care