Postpartum & Relationships

Relationships do change when kids become a part of the picture—there's no way around that. Typically, the joy and excitement that come with being a new parent outweigh the frustration or disappointment. However, the relationship tension that often comes up under this added stress cannot be ignored. Similarly, the focus on the new child is critically important, but it isn't selfish to tend to your own needs, too. Good parents aren't necessarily the ones who sacrifice themselves entirely for their child, but rather the ones who know they can't pour from an empty cup. They work to balance their own needs with their children's to provide the very best for their entire family system.

If you are experiencing conflict or distance in your relationship after having children, couples therapy may be a beneficial option. The therapists at The Montfort Group have extensive training and expertise in helping couples communicate, maintain or regain intimacy and grow together after having children. Contact us to learn more or schedule an appointment.

Therapist Unplugged is brought to you by The Montfort Group. Each episode will feature the unplugged views of guests and fellow therapists as we navigate hot topics, therapy trends and the world around us.

*The Montfort Group provides a serene, calming setting where you can feel challenged, supported, and motivated. Our skilled therapists bridge specialized backgrounds and varied philosophies together to create one unified strategy. Rather than steer you away from your own natural abilities, we help you maximize your unique strengths. We do not view a broken history as the end of a story, we see it as an opportunity for a new beginning.

Transcript

Laurie Poole: 0:32

Welcome to episode number three. This is the Welcome to Episode Three of therapist unplugged today's Abraham, just stop and do as long as there's a pause, you can shoot Yeah. Yeah. Welcome to episode number three of therapists unplugged. Today's topic is postpartum life, expectations versus reality. And I am recording in Montreal around the dining table of my beautiful daughter Kristen, and my favorite son in law, Jason, who have just given birth to daughter number two. And actually, the topic of today's podcast was inspired by Kristen, who three years ago after giving birth to mckaela said, you know, nobody ever really tells you what it's like to have a baby. And all that comes afterwards. And I've heard that quite often in my therapy room. So I thought this would be a perfect opportunity to speak to Christina and Jason about what their experience was, as the parents of as first time parents three years ago versus what it's been like for the last week. And I apologize in advance to my listeners, I have terrible laryngitis today. But I could not let this opportunity go by when I can sit here with Kristen and Jason, in real time. So guys, welcome. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being my guest today. Yeah, I want to talk about expectations and reality. I know that the first time you became parents three years ago was a bit of a rough ride. Yes. Yeah, it was a bit of a culture shock. That's for sure. Lots of adapting. Yeah, and finding your own rhythm, finding your rhythm and trying to figure out this new life. And it's very overwhelming. Yeah, yeah. Let me let me ask, what were your expectations? Like, what did you think parenthood would be like? Before Michaela was born? What were your expectations?

Jason: 2:47

I don't know if I had any. I mean, I'm coming from somebody who did not wanting children for a very, very long time. And then life sort of ran its course. And I found somebody and one day I woke up realizing that maybe I did want to be a father. And so I was going into it assuming it was going to be exhausting and tiring and taking away from my personal life that I've gotten comfortable with. But I was hoping I would find some enjoyment in it at the same time. And as it happened, sure enough, it was it was a lot a lot to undertake and definitely pushed pushes you to your limits. Right limits you didn't even know Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, but a vote for you, Kristen.

Kristen: 3:37

Um, I think the expectation is that you give birth and then all of a sudden, everything should be second nature. And it isn't Yes. More specifically, you know, breastfeeding I think that was like a huge challenge for me. Everybody makes it seem like it's this this after that comes easily and and without without its challenges, but that's really not not the case at all. So I think that was like a rough Reality Check right off the bat. You know, it's Did you feel a lot of pressure to breastfeed Michaela? Oh, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Right, from even prenatal classes is where it starts, they drive it, they really drive it hard. And to the point that it makes you feel like if you're not doing it, you're you're an inadequate parent. Absolutely. Like for the mother anyways, obviously for the husband, there's no impact, but for the mother, it's Oh my god, you're not doing it this way. You're you've already messed up as a mother, you have failed because you're not breastfeeding. It's it's pretty aggressive. It is very aggressive. And the nurses I think, really drive it home with the prenatal classes, but then again, at the hospital, you know, are you Brett like, it's almost like they don't even want to know what your decision is. They're just kind of throwing it in your face. Okay, you're breastfeeding. But you don't even give you the opportunity to say no. all these like pros as to why breastfeeding is best. And there's this huge pressure, you know, and going into it, I was like, I'm gonna try this. And if it works, it works. And if it doesn't, it doesn't. But then once you're in it, yeah, it completely takes over. Right? And to the point where you're just like, Well, no, I can't stop I have to keep going. And it got to the point where you know, it was really starting to affect My mental health. Yeah. And you know, I? In what way can you describe that a little bit more Christian for maybe more first time moms going through, you know, something similar and thinking like, Oh, I'm failing my baby or I'm, you know, not showing up as the best parent I can be. It seems like there's a lot of Yeah, so I mean, listen, it started with with her not being able to latch properly, which then you know, affects your supplies, then you're like, Okay, I'm not supplying enough milk. Like, why? Why is my body failing me? And then, you know, my body's failing me, I'm feeling my child and then having to supplement with formula to make sure she's not screaming, and then you're worried about her weight gain, and you're worried about, you know, all the the impacts that come with that. And then, yeah, you just started to beat yourself down, and to the point where I was like, Okay, well, at least, I'll pump and she'll get my breast milk that way, and then you're still not producing enough. And then you're sitting there attached to a wall for every two hours, for 20 minutes, and you just feel like a cow.

Laurie Poole: 6:29

Yeah, so it just it becomes too much. And it takes away the enjoyment of being a mother. And really bonding with your baby. Yeah, cuz you're so uptight. And so full of anxiety. Yeah. You know, Jason, you said something earlier about it doesn't really affect husbands. But I think it must have affected you watching Kristen. Yes. So from that perspective, yeah. So that in the early stages, when the nurses are really trying to drive at home and listen, I get it, you know what, it's the, it's medical? They're not going to tell you otherwise. Right? Yes, we know that from a medical perspective, breast milk is the better option for x, y, Zed reasons from the nutrients. And part I think of the medical establishment is that they want to drive the healthiest option, right? They don't want to drive people to the store. But I think the flaw is that they don't say do this, try your best. And if you fall back on formula, it's not the end of the world, they really just draw that line where it's, well, you have to do this. And if you don't, well, then your, your child is missing out on x, y, z, like, exactly, your baby's not going to have the best immune system, or they're not going to have the whatever, you know what I mean. So all the potential reasons why formula is not as great as breast milk, but you know, it, but at the same time, there's a reality anxiety. I remember, you know, Kristen, being tearful. Right? So Oh, yeah. And you were very, you really felt like a failure. And I think at one point, john, Jason, you said, You know what, yeah, from the father's perspective, it's watching

Jason: 8:06

your wife and the mother of your child, not getting to be any of it. They almost they lose their existence, they become this almost inanimate object just sitting at this table attached to a machine. Just not existing, you know, just sadness in their eyes and just feeling broken and holding their child and not really getting that opportunity to connect with their child, you know, you go through this, this nine month ordeal, and you know, you push this kid out. And the first thing you want to do is embrace that, that existence, and it's taken from you, it's robbed from you by the system that says, Well, you got to do it this way. And if you don't, here, it's a sad to watch, you know, and from the husband perspective, it's is very, very heartbreaking to, to watch your wife struggle like that. And then you have kind of have to draw the line because you realize that they're not that the will to want to succeed and to not fail as a new mother is so overwhelming that they'll bury themselves doing it. Yeah. And I think it's you have to step in as the supportive person the really the only other person there that is so close to the situation and be like, not that it's your call, right? A lot of people are gonna listen and be like, Oh my god, well, it's not your decision. It's the mother decision. Yeah, we get that but part of the husbands role is to pay attention on an emotional level, what's happening with the mother and just chime in because the mother may be waiting on some sort of aid or some extra words to say, Hey, you know what, you don't need to do this and it's not me telling my wife that it's okay if you don't, it's me just letting you know that whatever you're feeling you're probably you know, you're probably right. And if you want to step away from this, it's okay. You know, your your, your well being is more important, and it's a team effort. I think people I knew from the husband I find that because it's such a personal experience to the mother, husbands or maybe left to feel like it's none of their business. I think society as a whole anything that revolves around a baby and a mother were very much led to feel like you're a secondary aspect of the situation. And you have no say and you have no say and it's the mother's choice. Okay, but you're married so when you made that decision, you came to you became a unit and so the decision making is not me telling her yes or a lot or no, you're not allowed Being her partner and assisting her in her journey. So I mean, for me, that's what it was it was walking into the kitchen and seeing her sitting there broken. And how do you let that keep going? You know, you have to, you have to step in and be like, you need to stop this because you're losing,

Laurie Poole: 10:48

I think you hit on a key word that is so important, is teamwork. You were a couple before the baby came into your lives. And when a baby arrives, it's such a life changing experience. I mean, more than anything birth and death, right. And so we can't we I think there's a tendency to romanticize in some ways, what it's like to have a baby, but I think can also for some people, be a level of grief. are life isn't what it used to be, especially in those really early days where you don't know what you're doing. You are exhausted. You second guess yourself, you put this pressure on yourself. I didn't know what this baby needs, but you've only met them three days ago. How could you possibly know? And just that ability to just recognition that you're a team? And to continue to be tuned into one another? I think that's the thing is, my observation gets I was there for that first week anyways, is that you were very tuned into Kristen. And and could see even in, you know the depth of the anxiety that you were feeling Kristin, you know, Jason was able to say, Hey, listen, this doesn't make you less of a mom. Yeah. Give yourself permission to say this is not this is not,

Kristen: 12:14

this is not working. Yeah. Working for me. Yeah,

Laurie Poole: 12:17

yeah, exactly. The other thing, too, Jason, that you just said I want to pick up on. And then I'm coming to you, Kristen, is about the role of dads. Because there is often this focus on the moms because she's pregnant, and she's going to go through the delivery and so on. And the role of dad pre part, blood, prenatal and postpartum maybe isn't always so clear. So I'm wondering what you learned and what advice you might have to offer based on your own postpartum experience as a dad.

Jason: 12:52

So I, you know, everybody I like to say we all have our tool belts in life. And we're all equipped with certain tools on our tool belt as we grow up, and how we're raised and what we go through in life. And not everybody has the same tool belt. Unfortunately, for me, I grew up with just them all. And that obviously had a big impact on how I became a husband and a father, because I was very heavily nurtured from the mother's perspective, and didn't really have much from a father side. So pros and cons to that, as I grew older, and you know, went through experiences in life that when it came time to being a dad and a husband, my instinct was that I was a more motherly, but more sensitive, and Nigerian. Yeah, and I was able to tune in, I think it was my instinct to, you know, just want to be there. And it was scary, because we all bring our own baggage into new situations. And you know, we've spoken about this in the past where these new situations bring to the surface issues and problems within you that you didn't really you thought maybe were gone, or buried, and just come right back, you know, you get pushed to your limits. And unfortunately, also, your mental or just things you've had to deal with in life, are thrown back in your face. And not only are you dealing with being a new parent, you're also dealing with your own childhood trauma, that then just stacks on top of that and just adds to the complication, you know, and as a father, for me, it's you know, what do I do you know, the pressures on the mom, she has to breastfeed, she's up on age, how do I help the situation? You just try and find your niche, you just try and find where you can is it doing the groceries is it cleaning up just to take as much weight off right? The focus is on the mother and understandably because those first that first beginning is really between the mom and the child but you still want to be involved. You don't want to be pushed out of it and you want to know that you've you've contributed to the whole situation as best as you can as a father and as a husband.

Kristen: 14:56

didn't touch on that. I think it's also I was talking about this with Nicole yesterday. And I think it's also the responsibility of the mom to be able to communicate what she needs from you. Right? Because everybody's different where it's like, you know, I think the dads instinct is to Okay, what else can I do to help pick up the slack whether it's the house or the groceries and it's like, depends on the mom to you know, some people may just want to hand over the baby for an hour. So should he go shower or take a light but it's up to the to the mom To be able to communicate that with their husband. And I think that's where a lot of moms kind of like miss the mark is that they just assume that the baby is entirely their responsibility, and that they don't deserve that break or that they should be grateful for other things. But I think,

Jason: 15:44

yeah, no, I think it comes back to teamwork, right? It's communicate with one another, and vacation. So it's telling the other person what you need, so that they can do it for you so that their efforts are not wasted? Yes, right. You don't want the last thing you want is one person putting in all this effort and thinking that they've done all these wonderful things. And it always being done in vain, because it really wasn't what the person needed at the end. And then you have this frustration of, well, I did all this stuff. Okay, but none of that helps me in any way. I'm glad Thank you. But that's not really what I wanted. So for the husband, father that's emotionally in tune, and you can pick up on things great, you have an edge on the situation, and you can probably pick up quicker. But then there's also the mom that maybe doesn't know how to communicate, or maybe doesn't know how to express what she's feeling, because maybe she's fearing confrontation or feel like maybe she's asking too much, or she's not allowed to ask for any of it. And so it's this really, really finicky dance of going back and forth on who takes the first step who says what, and trying to navigate right and learning to be in sync?

Laurie Poole: 16:52

I love what you just said about the dance, because that's exactly what happens. Isn't it a relationship as you dance together? And sometimes you step on one another's toes, yeah. But you need to be able to send a clear signal for what you need, so your partner can deliver. Because when you're out there, like he's doing all of these things, and someone says, Yeah, but what it really needed was a hot shower. Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's I think that's, that's, that's crucial.

Kristen: 17:21

And I think that's where a lot of resentment will come in to men. I think that's like a huge source of complex as like, of new parents is, is the resentment feeling like, Okay, well, I'm the one that stuck with the baby, you can do this, you can do that. And then the other person thinking that they're helping you and not realizing, you know, that maybe they just needed to take the baby for a minute.

Jason: 17:40

Or just assuming that the other person should just know. Yeah, so why did you know what I want? Yeah, well, why didn't you tell me what why should I have to tell you, okay, but again, the dance, we need to we need to work with each other, right? If I step on your toes, it's not a blame game. You we need to correct it together. And we want the dads to be as nice as possible. And I think people are too focused on their own needs individually, that they, you know, I think one of the core things I've always tried to focus on in my marriage with Kristen is I instinctively will not worry about myself and slowly worry about the other person. Now there's some dangerous to that. But if you're lucky enough to be with a partner who does the same, you're both taking care of one another. And you're not worrying about, it's more genuine, because I'm not there's no self interest for me. I'm worried about Kristin. And that's where my energy has, she is worried about me. And so it just balances nicely, but it takes time. So if you're a young couple, and you've only been together for a short period of time, and now you're throwing a baby into the mix, you're just you're adding to that experiment, you're just making it that much trickier and tougher, right? So it's, you know, it's an ongoing, I mean, you know, people can be married for 20 years, and they're still stepping on each other's toes during the dance, and never ends. Yeah.

Laurie Poole: 18:52

Right. And having a baby doesn't make it easier. No, no.

Kristen: 18:58

and brings it all to the surface.

Jason: 18:59

It's like someone throwing a ball in between your feet as you're trying to dads and you're constantly stepping on and yes, flip flopping over one another.

Laurie Poole: 19:08

How did you guys figure out I think you've touched on some of the challenges in the relationship for but for you, Kristen, how did having a baby shift? Or, yeah, shift your relationship with with Jason.

Kristen: 19:26

I don't know if it really shifted all that much. I think for me becoming a new mom, it was more about like, the like you said before, like the kind of the grieving your old life. But I feel like

Jason: 19:42

I think it'll happen too fast that you don't really have time to worry. Yeah. When you have a little little life thing. You know, balancing you know, hanging in your hands. It's kind of Okay, great. I miss it. But baby's crying. So another day.

Kristen: 19:57

You don't have time to think about it. Yeah, because you're just so focused and worried about keeping this little tiny human alive.

Laurie Poole: 20:04

What did you learn about yourself becoming a mom?

Kristen: 20:09

Ooh, that's a question of a therapist. Remember? What? Okay, what did I learn about myself becoming a mom. I think I get I don't know. I don't even know Probably that I not that I thought I had a lot of patience, but it really drove at home that I don't have you know that you can i mean that you're stronger than you think I think, you know, really, it pushes you and attests you to limits that you didn't know existed,

Laurie Poole: 20:48

but that you're strong enough to overcome it. I think that's really kind of, that's what I would say. What about for you, Jason? For me, it made me realize that I had a lot more emotional baggage and damage that I was carrying on my shoulders. And I realized I had things from a very long time ago from when I was very young that I've been carrying my whole life that I thought were kind of gone only because my life was so easy being alone living in my apartment with my cat, just very simple. There was nothing pushing the envelope. And so you throw you know, you get married, you move into a house, you have a baby all back to back in a matter of a few years. And all of a sudden, everything surfaces, and it made me realize how much work there was still left to be done. And that if I want it to be the best dad possible, and to be a good husband, that I really had to nip it in the bud, I really had to take care of these lingering things, and that if I didn't, they would bury me. And it's very frightening. It is scary. It's scary when you least expect it. And I think when you become a parent, it's like that little kid in yourself shows up. And through your parodying of your children, you tried to sue that little kid, it's really, I don't know how else to describe it, I experienced something very similar to what you're describing. And I've had clients talk about their own childhood experiences coming up for them as they're watching their children grow and the way they parent and it's a very, it's a complex and fascinating scenario. But I think it it is again, a reminder of you know, work continual work in progress. And so when we have children, there may be old wounds that surface that we are now either called to or prepared to address that we wouldn't have before. And I think that's just the that's human nature and part of the parenting and giving birth process. What did you find? were the best sources of support as you were going through those early days of parenting, especially with Michaela, like just becoming parents.

Jason: 23:06

For myself I would say there's probably very little i think you know, from the father's perspective I don't think that we're looked at as husbands and fathers that we need any support I think it's just assumed that we're these rocks that can just go to work every day and just push through everything and the moms are sort of made to look like these you know fragile beings that need all the help in the world which you know there's no women are very very strong and but there's a huge support system you know, I got to watch Kristen go online and go on these Facebook groups and all these moms getting together and talking to each other and these groups are also in sync with the age of your baby and so all the moms who have a child is the same as yours and they're all helping each other men don't do that we don't sit around a table and go so how you feeling today How is it how you know like we're we're supposed to be the tough ones but we're breaking inside and there is nothing in the system to help us there is no father Facebook crew for new kids maybe there is I didn't find it but we also probably don't go looking for it either. So Exactly. And so it's a very different dynamic right the moms really, I think team together to support one another and I think it's wonderful to see that all these moms are struggling individually but are like let's all struggle together. right the the fathers are just like let's just all struggle silently in our shed. Okay, so it's a little different.

Laurie Poole: 24:33

I was I was really impressed. I guess I was surprised but I was very impressed with the number of men who responded to a post that you placed on Facebook who acknowledge their own struggle and the overwhelm and it's like with that combined with the ongoing exhaustion and emotional strain and so on who said Hey dude, listen, I felt the same way you know I'm like the kids are kept me up all night and so

Jason: 25:07

but the guys don't talk about it. We haven't been killed. We've been conditioned not to Wow, I think it's just the way that I think just societal contract. We just we've been conditioned to not speak those things. Right?

Laurie Poole: 25:19

What societal contract? Yeah, I think I think I think you're onto something. Yeah. It's like that piece of Men don't talk about their vulnerabilities. If we say we need if we're, if we're being vulnerable, then we get judged or we're perceived as weak when in fact, it takes tremendous strength and courage to be vulnerable. And I just loved the way men responded to that post.

Jason: 25:47

It was nice, you know, it was

Laurie Poole: 25:49

comforting and reassuring at the time,

Jason: 25:53

cuz you don't realize that they're all struggling. Yeah. You know,

Laurie Poole: 25:56

exactly. I'm looking for my glasses. There. I'm like, Okay. Christian, I also wanted to ask you, you, we haven't really talked a whole lot about this. But you suffered two miscarriages. Yeah. And for both of you, I know, it was so so incredibly disappointing. And but I, we haven't really talked a whole lot about what that was like for you.

Kristen: 26:28

Yeah. No, it was. It was extremely Yeah, I think. I think disappointing is probably the best word to describe it. The pregnancy with Michaela came so easy. So I think the expectations for the second time were that it was just going to be easy. It was going to, you know, happen on the first the first shot like it did with her. And you know, I didn't I think I was just blindsided by the the complications. Yeah. Yeah. But it's it was definitely disappointing. It was very sad. You know, you the wheels start to turn, you know, okay, well, you hear about secondary infertility is this is what is this, to me is this, you know, and then you know, the wheels start to turn and you're just like, Oh, my gosh, maybe this isn't meant to be or, you know, maybe we'll have a little bit more trouble with this one,

Jason: 27:19

I think you can see, again, the amount of pressure put on a female. Because the same level of pressure of breastfeeding, once again, the pressure is on to be pregnant. Right? It's easy for the guy. We have a very simple task, but then it seems like all the weight is on the female that, oh, is there something wrong inside of you? Can you not hold? Like, is there something wrong with your uterus, like all these different things, right? And what is physic physiologically wrong with you that, you know, you can't get pregnant? And I remember telling Chris, and I'm like, but why do you assume it's you? Why do you assume it's you? Well, because it has to be me? Not necessarily, it could very much be me. You know, there's two of us here, but the default emotion is, oh, it's the pressures on me were the ones getting pregnant were the ones bearing. So if it's not working, it has to be my fault. Right? It has there's a lot a lot of negative weight put on females to be mothers in any shape or form. Well,

Laurie Poole: 28:16

because we hold a uterus and I think that with that comes an unspoken responsibility, that that is implied inferred, felt, etc, that it is our job. And so when something goes wrong, I think women are much more inclined to say, oh, is there something wrong with me? Did you talk about miscarriage with your friends or with mean, we talked about it when you thought you were pregnant? And then and then found out that you weren't?

Kristen: 28:44

Yeah. Yeah, I feel like the topic is so I think just makes people uncomfortable. So if you say, Oh, hey, I had a miscarriage. People don't know what to say. They don't know. They don't know if they have the right to ask questions. They don't know how to be there to to support you. And so I think I think it just makes me I think it just makes people uncomfortable. It's kind of I mean, it's kind of like death, right? Like, people don't know what to say. There's nothing to say that will make you feel better. Really, it's more just about having the support. But I think yeah, I think it just genuinely makes people uncomfortable. So you don't really talk about it.

Laurie Poole: 29:29

I don't think you if I remember correctly, you didn't get a lot of sympathy empathy, acknowledgement from your ob either. No,

Kristen: 29:40

it was more like okay, well, if it happens again, then we'll investigate. So I don't know if that's because there's in it all the time that they that they know that it's normal. And for someone who got pregnant on the first shot, like it's, it wasn't normal to me. So it made me panic, whereas I think they you know, they're in the thick of it, so they can really be the ones to judge whether or not it's actually an issue or not, but yeah, I mean, not having that support from your doctor either is, yeah, it sucks.

Laurie Poole: 30:14

It's very hard. And I think as you have just described, miscarriage is one of those topics that people are very uncomfortable talking about. The grief is real, terribly, terribly painful. for couples who all they want is to have a baby. And when you combine that with a generation of adults who are used to the equation of if you work really hard, you get success. This is not something that you can say, Well, if I eat all the right things, if I do all the right things, I will get pregnant. It just doesn't work that way. And that in and of itself, can be such a mind blower for people who are used to doing all the right things, and then having equal success follow just doesn't work like that. And it can be very frustrating, depressing, and leave people feeling lost. What was it like for you, Jason?

Jason: 31:14

A little different, obviously, for for the husband, because we're not the ones bearing and then losing. It's not the same emotional response. Obviously, there's the excitement of Oh, I'm going to be a dad again. And you know, you have that high and then obviously, you hit that low when you find out. I think the reaction is very personal to Korea individually. For me, being someone who's very analytical about life, and everything's kind of an equation for me. Yes, I felt pain and I was sad, but I kind of just looked at it as it's just not the right time. I had to default to it's just not the right time. One, I think, to cope with the loss and also to you know, stay positive and be like maybe now just not the right moment. There's just a lot going on. When this child is ready to to exist, it'll it'll fall into place. And I look at Blake and I can't help but think that that's really all it is. Sometimes you have to let go. I think we're so focused on controlling everything, especially myself that I'm very OCD and I have to be on top of everything. Life is way too grand. And there are things that you will never be able to control and sometimes you have to let go and let life take its course and take things as they happen. grieve through them live through them be happy, but things will happen in their own time have a very strong believer

Laurie Poole: 32:34

it's amazing how when you release the attachment to an outcome all of a sudden things will just drop into your lap

Kristen: 32:42

yeah yeah because I mean I was like we were I was like gung ho I was tracking my ovulation I was this

Jason: 32:50

I was obsessive like it was next level Yeah, yeah. Because each month

Kristen: 32:54

so we started trying in July each month I got a negative test the more obsessive I became about it. Yeah. And then I just got to the point where after the second the second miscarriage I was like, You know what, like, let's just take a breather and then that's when we got pregnant

Jason: 33:11

isn't it always the case just to let go

Kristen: 33:13

and let God and here she is

Laurie Poole: 33:16

here she is. So you have been parents a second time for one week? Yeah. I arrived a week ago Friday and 26 hours later Christian you went into labor divine divine timing really by all by all measures had a quick labor and very quick Yes, and little Blake Olivia is here and you heard me laugh earlier because she was squeaking while we were interviewing there grisons been holding her the whole time a very different vibe in the house this time so different

Jason: 33:59

when you think you're past the chaos they quickly remind you that you're just starting all over again and the dynamic of having a three year old and then adding on a newborn and the whole balancing act it it'll happen very very quickly because obviously we weren't expecting labor that soon and here we are right out of nowhere I'm you know an hour away out of town I drive back to to Montreal and that same night we're in the hospital. It definitely happened quick but again, teamwork, right? I think people need to be vulnerable with one another I think husbands and wives really need to learn to put their guards down and talk to one another and care for one another and what do you need? What can I do for you? How can I help you and it goes both ways. And keep it balanced? You know and learning your strengths. You know each parent has strengths and weaknesses. I know I do I have things that I'm very good at. And I have things that I'm horrible at but it's so happens Kristin is amazing at them and play your strengths like anything right you know if you're good at taking the kid and going out in the car for an hour do it. Yeah, everything is a positive everyone has a purpose. And every every counts.

Laurie Poole: 35:17

Beautiful. Kristen, what about you? What is it like to be mama? To little Blake

Kristen: 35:24

it's it's awesome. The second time around I think there's just so much easier. So much easier. Every baby is different. Every experience will be different from one kid to the next. But I think you're just so much more comfortable in your role as a parent, that you just don't sweat the small stuff. Yeah. And that you kind of you're you have that sense of Okay, I've been there done that. They're going to be just fine. I know what I'm doing. And I think I think they vibe off of that. Yeah, I think like she's, I mean, listen, we're a week into it. She's very chill may change. But I think I think she really kind of vibes off of off of the energy.

Laurie Poole: 36:03

Oh, yeah. 100% Yeah. 100%. She, she will. She will just go with the flow. I think she knows. second child. Yeah. Easy. Yeah. Not all second. Children are easy, but you are okay. Well, thank you both very much. And thank you, Blake. Little squeaker. Thank you both very much for sharing your perspectives your insight. On a final note, do you have any advice or recommendations for brand new parents? Kristen, what would you offer up? I would say, don't be shy to reach out to your friends, to your family to those Facebook groups because I feel like

Kristen: 36:49

it's, it really is there. There's so many pros and cons to social media. And I think this is one of its strengths, especially if you don't have friends that are going through it at the same time as you are haven't been through it yet, which was our case three years ago. I didn't really have those girlfriends that had kind of been there done that to offer any advice. So the mom groups really were my, my go to Yeah, even in the middle of the night, even in the middle of the night. Because you know, if you're a new mom, well then best believe there's tons of other new moms that are on their phones at two o'clock in the morning.

Laurie Poole: 37:32

where you don't have to feel so alone. Yeah. Yeah. Good stuff. Okay. What about for you, Jason? Any advice or recommendations? For new dads? Yeah, I

Jason: 37:44

think. I mean, for both new dads and new moms, I think it's more for me of a team effort. I think leave your pride and your ego out the door and just be there for one another, find empathy. Be compassionate, be considerate. Don't get mad, don't blame each other. No matter how exhausted you are. It will push you to your limits. But always remember that you love one another. And you'll you'll help each other get through it. You're both gonna row together and you'll you'll get there.

Laurie Poole: 38:15

Beautiful. Well, thank you both very much. It's a great note on which to say thank you, and thank you to our three listeners for tuning in. We appreciate all right. Thanks so much, guys. Thank you.